"As worship services in many churches "evolve" into something that those churches think will appeal to the non-churchgoing majority, believers are likely to be confronted more often with the kind of situation Irene faced."

...and as Dr. Lowrie has pointed out, these churches are trying to appeal to the (secular) "world" instead of worshipping God. The "world", as Dr. Lowrie described, it is essentially a spiritual enemy. Pandering to the non-churchgoing majority by "evolving" the service is a dangerous step to take. The non-churchgoing majority doesn't go to church for a reason. They aren't interested in the message or the activity. They're too busy watching the "big game" at home. So why alter a reverential activity for believers in the hopes of attracting people who are not?

A pastor could conceivably incorporate Marilyn Manson's Personal Jesus cover, a light show, and a line of chorus girls to appeal to the non-church going majority as well. Many Catholic churches have already gone this route adding rock bands and "ecumenical dance" as part of their worship services. Has it worked? No.

The spiritual world, particularly the Christian world, can not and should not try to compete with the secular world's distractions and temptations. You can't beat the Devil at his own game on his own ground. Why not make services a much needed alternative to it? Reach out toward God's sublimity instead of the "world's" banality.

I believe Irene's humility is getting the better of her personal judgement. A person can be humble and still make a personal, moral, decision that something is right or wrong.

"The minute I start thinking, "How could he --?!", it's already an indication that I somehow know better. That I am somehow so smart to see through the clever words and poor theology."

...and she probably is. Deliberately ignoring one's own heart-felt convictions is as great an error as pride. If a pastor is introducing something that appears to be spiritually corrupt, it's a person's duty to take action, if only to leave. Hopefully, she'll discuss what this visitor did with the church's regular pastor.

Mr Freen: No, no, I'm not ignoring my own convictions. I never said the pastor was right after all. I only said my own *reaction* to it wasn't right...

I cannot control what happens in church, but I am responsible for how I react to it, and reacting badly isn't going to help anybody, least of all myself. It certainly isn't going to change things either.

Bahhhh! That's nothin' at all.

Did C.L.E.R. Ministry's sexuality course with my older boy at First Prez this past weekend ... a VERY frank discussion of the birds and the bees and the Bible.

Now THAT was something! :-)

Seriously, though, and getting back to your original post, Eric, I would probably have joined Irene, 'stomping on the foot of the enemy' as I walked out of the service.

The sad thing is, there are churches that dance and clap and even have a guitarist playing DURING CHURCH on a weekly basis. They attract really big crowd because for them it's a concert rather than a worship service.

No names, but theres one on 191 between Midland and Odessa.

Bert, you would really be shocked by my church, then, since we have three guitarists (plus an electric bass, drummer, electronic keyboard, grand piano, tambourine player and, generally, a flute player). Of course, we have three Sunday morning services, and only one service has this lineup.

I don't see anything wrong with having things like this present during worship. If it was good enough for King David (a man after God's own heart, by the way), it should work for us, too.

I do see a lot wrong with viewing it as entertainment or as a concert.

I hope I didn't offend you with that previous post, but I don't think you're church turns the whole service into a concert like the ones I'm talking about.

However, I am a Church of Christ member. We don't use any instruments at all. We just sing to the Lord with our hearts. And it sounds just as beautiful, if not more.

Bert, no worries...you'll have to work harder than that to offend me! As long as you don't say anything bad about my dog, you're in good shape, and even then, you'd probably be in more trouble with Mr. Freen than with me. ;-)

I subscribe to the philosophy of "unity in the essential, charity in the non-essential" and to me, musical style in worship falls squarely into the non-essential category. It's really easy to use it as a lightning rod because it's so obvious, but in the end, it's just not important.

As for your statement about CofCers not using instruments, I respectfully beg to differ, in that the human voice is the most amazing and wonderful instrument of them all. You guys can sing harmony like the angels (or how I figure they do it; I wouldn't know for sure) and it is a beautiful thing to behold. Nevertheless, it's neither more or less valid a way to facilitate worship than the use of handcrafted musical instruments, at least in my opinion.

In the end, God judges us by our hearts, and we can discern (if we're wise) each other's hearts by the "fruit" we bear. Everything else fades into relative insignificance.

Very well put!