I was thinking the same thing. Very disappointing...

It's one of the saddest headlines of the week; maybe of all of July. Dang him!

Agreed. But what is in the deep-down heart of each and every one of us? With or without the money and success.

I know you won't find me saying "surely not I!" about Mel's disappointing behavior.

Well, my final sentence was meant to be a caution about more than just "wealth, power and success," which are really not factors for most of us.

You know though - I'm not sure that liquored up tongues express what we really feel - I think they express what we've been indoctrinated with that, when we're fully in control of our faculties, we censor. Mel's dad is famous for his anti-semetic (can't spell, sorry) protestations and you know that Mel's had to listen to - and deflect publically - more than one tirade. So the words are there - whether he believes them or not. After all, if a very strong Christian gets drunk, are they going to start reciting all of the scripture they know? Even if it's truly what they believe and have in the depths of their hearts?

My point being that I am disappointed, but at the same time he's asked forgiveness - which is so much more than so many others (celebrity or not) ever manage. And while it's sad that it happened, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Beth, you raise some good points, although I still have to respectfully disagree with a couple of them.

I think they express what we've been indoctrinated with that, when we're fully in control of our faculties, we censor.

None of us are born with prejudice or preference, aside from the most basic of needs. We all acquire them through experience AND the influence of others. The "indoctrination" of Mel by his father is not an acceptable excuse, unless we're willing to grant that same excuse to every other person in the world who rationalizes his or her wrongful or hurtful actions and words. To his credit, I don't recall Mel offering up such an excuse.

After all, if a very strong Christian gets drunk, are they going to start reciting all of the scripture they know? Even if it's truly what they believe and have in the depths of their hearts?

Well, actually, I think you just proved my point. ;-)

I can't speak for every Christian in the world, but I'm pretty sure that the reason why -- when the inhibitions are dropped and our true hearts are revealed -- we're pretty much indistinguishable from the rest of humanity, because, after all, we still are characterized by that sin nature into which we were born. Only by God's grace, day to day, are we ever able to rise above it, and then only temporarily. As the monk said, we fall down...we get up; we fall down...we get up. The Bible tells us that the heart is deceitful above all things, as evidenced by our ability to put a shiny veneer of respectability over the unwashed vessel we not only live in, but cultivate.

Gibson's apologies are abject and sincere, I believe, but there are consequences to sin, even after forgiveness and grace erases their eternal effects. He's going to have to walk through them now, and I don't envy him for that. OTOH, I've got my own demons to deal with; as Jim implies above, Mel's got plenty of company.

Hm..I certainly didn't intend to say that indoctrination was an excuse - more that Mel has distanced himself from the poison of his father publicly on many occasions, and even though the poison is there, chooses to be different than that - chooses to say it's wrong, publically. So if, when not in posession of full use of his faculties he did not make that choice, well that doesn't (to me) mean he feels that way deep down. Either way though it's not excusable to say it. However, the one time I had more to drink than is prudent I believe I said something about enjoying the company of reptiles - which is far, far, far from the truth. It just seemed like a good thing to say at the time. Alcohol does bizarre things to the brain. But that said, at the end of the day, you still should be responsible for the consequences of any words or deeds that occur when under its influence. (Though many escape said consequences - how many deaths due to DUIs go un-punished every year? To me, that's a bigger crime than anything Mel - or anyone else - says while drunk.)

Disappointment is exactly what I feel about this - and I'm sad for Mel and his family for the embarrassment they're having to endure because the press is relentless in their pursuit of scandal.

I was gratified to hear Mel's statement of apology yesterday - I believe he is sincere in his requests for forgiveness and that his request for help from the Jewish community is more than many others would have done in his place. Reaching out to those whom you insult is a good step toward healing between those parties.

I've been news free for a couple days and have completely missed both what Mel said, and his apology/request for forgiveness, but this is a good discussion.

I agree with Jen that reaching out to those whom you insult is a good step. Sad that it is a necessary one. Funny what Beth said about enjoying the company of reptiles. ;-) And true about being "responsible for the consequences of any words or deeds that occur when under its influence." Poetic what Eric said about "our ability to put a shiny veneer of respectability over the unwashed vessel we not only live in, but cultivate." And success, wealth and power, as measured in worldly terms, are not virtues.

Some good thoughts to ponder, Mel or no Mel. :-)